Natural Muscle

Boards => General Chat => Topic started by: Cordwell13 on June 07, 2016, 12:49:16 AM



Title: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Cordwell13 on June 07, 2016, 12:49:16 AM
Haven't posted here in a long while but just wanted to pick some of your brains, recently the temptation to move over to the dark side has rose, with some days I'm certain I want to do it, then the next day I change my mind. There's obviously pros and cons with both and its a huge decision that I have to make and has been on my mind ever since I started lifting 8 years ago. I just wanted to ask you guys why you chose not to use assistance and if you ever will in the future? for me it would be:
Cons:
obvious health side effects
cost
negative stigma
all I know is natural bodybuilding, I don't care for ukbff or nabba, I only really follow the natty feds
not entirely sure how to eat/train as an enhanced athlete
probably wouldn't be competitive right away so would have to take a few years off stage to get bigger
don't really wanna be 'too big' most of you know the look, bald, angry looking. I always want to look aesthetic

Pros:
you all know the benefits.. strength, size, recovery etc
a higher potential to become sponsored or make money out of the sport
probably help me as a personal trainer


If you guys can just give me your reasons why id really appreciate it as I'm in limbo atm, and really don't wanna make the wrong decision. thanks.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Dan94 on June 07, 2016, 02:53:36 AM
You forgot a main one, fertility. For me, bigger/better 'gains' doesn't outway the risk of making myself infertile in the future.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Jon on June 07, 2016, 06:46:09 AM
You're right to give it a lot of thought, it's a really big decision.

Lots of good points already raised yourself and by Dan. Obviously I'm going to recommend staying natural, my mother used to say 'if in doubt... dont', and it's not bad advice.

Think of the end game. If you start on drugs then some day you will have to get off them again and lose the gains. That could be a short period of time or a long one. What do you want to achieve, and what could you realistically achieve by going on them? Think about the time when you come off and look back. I would say it is unlikely that using would increase financial security in the longer term. The cost of sustaining that lifestyle could make you worse off. A very, very small percentage of bodybuilders really benefit (in terms of furthering their career) from taking drugs. Perhaps less than the top 1% genetically gifted.

Ultimately for me, the ethical issues and my longer term health kept me natural. It's a decision you need to make for yourself, but a lot can be achieved naturally with hard work over time.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: merve on June 07, 2016, 10:40:56 AM
Great answer jon.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Nic on June 07, 2016, 12:37:34 PM
I think there are extra reasons (or considerations) as a female - it's much less socially acceptable to take gear, and to look like you do when you take gear.

Anyway, for me:

- I like sport to be as "pure" as possible. Just the body and what you can do with it. To me, using any drugs would give me an "advantage" which isn't me/my hard work.
- Health. I don't want kids, but even so I don't want to f*ck up my hormones. Or my heart/other organs. TBH my knowledge of the health risks of gear is minimal, but know there are risks and I don't want them.
- Aesthetics. I find the assisted female look impressive, but it's not for me. I like the natural look. I'm happy to push the natural look as far as I possibly can within my own limits - in fact I want to! But I wouldn't want the assisted look.
- Public perception. I'm pretty sure my family and close friends would be shocked/disappointed if I took gear, and I wouldn't want that. And I think as an assisted female, I'd be perceived differently by people in the gym, strangers, acquaintances.
- Yet one more thing to think about. I find it difficult enough to remember my macros, meal timings, water intake etc as well as running a business, doing my tax return, and remembering when I'm meant to be picking my nephew up from school. I'd probably mess a drug protocol up by forgetting something. I cba with the extra level of worry!
- Cost. I'd rather spend my cash on protein, meat, shoes, dresses, and high end skincare items tbh ;)

Please note this is all just my opinion and I don't place any of those ^^^ views onto anybody who does choose to use.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: ben-howard on June 08, 2016, 10:47:16 AM
Some great answers in this thread, I personally take the natural route for my health, I couldn't face the fact that one day I will lose everything Iv worked for, my health could be in bits and all for what? I prefer the look of the top natural guys too, not as freaky but still massively impressive and aesthetic , how brian whitacre looked at the worlds impresses me far more than any of the olympia guys, just my personal preference

Also it's a mindset thing (for me) I know if I used, I would know that is an easy way out for me, and in other areas of life I would look for an easy option too, instead of working harder I would up dosages, and you can't do that with family,buisness etc when Times get tough, it would make me lazy, again just my mindset

I think for those of us with kids that lesson of hard work to become who you want is a big one and a great example to set,

Plus as bodybuilders we have such a great opportunity to compete here in the UK with a chance to represent the UK doesn't get any better than that!


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Toby on June 08, 2016, 12:43:21 PM
Agree with every word Ben said. For me, health becomes before literally anything else. If you do not have health and life, you have nothing.

Living and breathing is a gift, don't throw it away in search of something so superficial as a plastic trophy and a guy in the pub saying you look stacked.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Dan94 on June 08, 2016, 04:21:43 PM
Agree with every word Ben said. For me, health becomes before literally anything else. If you do not have health and life, you have nothing.

Living and breathing is a gift, don't throw it away in search of something so superficial as a plastic trophy and a guy in the pub saying you look stacked.

Boom! Great answer :D


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Cordwell13 on June 09, 2016, 12:49:36 AM
Some great feedback, thanks guys. Anyone from the opposing side? obviously quite expected on a natty muscle site.. The reason I've never taken the plunge is because I've never felt 100% ready, once you use you cant go back (I don't agree with the 7 year clean rule but that's just my opinion) and being a natural trainer is symbolic to me, I'd have to chuck out all my 'naturally build, and 100% natty tops out for Christ sakes!' I dunno why this subject doesn't come up more, I know its a bit taboo but id always wanna find out reasons why people stay natural, even more so any pros if any of them wanna chime in! Also for me if drug testing was significantly better then that would encourage me to stay on the natural side as although the sport and all the feds do their upmost to keep drugs out of the sport there's always some that fall through the cracks.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: SuperplexSteve on June 12, 2016, 11:38:46 AM
Some good reasons for staying natural have already been mentioned.

For me, it's about setting an example. When I have children one day, I wouldn't want them taking PEDs, so I would be a hypocrite if I took them myself and told them not to do it.

The social stigma is a big one - people would assume that you've taken a shortcut and haven't worked hard for the gainz.  They'll then judge your character based on that action alone.  People put you into the "dodgy / weird person category".  I care about my career and wouldn't want to have my reputation ruined by something like this.  At work, a colleague joked that the steroids must be working quite well for me as on one particular day I was looking quite full.  I gave him earful for that comment.

Another reason is cost.  There are other things I'd rather spend my money on, like holidays!

Also, I'm an advocate for trying to hit my natural potential.  If I'm not competitive on a natural stage then I would have no chance on a non-tested one, so there's little reward in going to the dark side.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: LiftHard on June 12, 2016, 10:23:00 PM
I want to...


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Monbeef on June 12, 2016, 11:18:08 PM
Right now I'm a big and strong natural. I've worked really hard for 15 years and have earned enough to be pround of and to have some fun in decent strength comps (hopefully decent BB comps too this year).

BUT, for me to be at the same stage as a using bodybuilder, I can't just take a simple cycle or two. Lots of people here are top end national or higher lifters or bodybuilders. To be a top end national juicer you gotta take a lot of juice, costing a lot of money and risking a lot of health.

And without all that juice, we'd all be just another using BB in a gym full of hundreds of them. 'I used to be good as a natty first!' 'Yeah right.'

That's why I stay natural. I've earned it. I don't want it taken away by becoming a novice in the next game.

Like being an RSM with 22 years active service I guess, then becoming a Lieutenant with all the new officer recruits.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: LiftHard on June 12, 2016, 11:37:46 PM
Right now I'm a big and strong natural. I've worked really hard for 15 years and have earned enough to be pround of and to have some fun in decent strength comps (hopefully decent BB comps too this year).

BUT, for me to be at the same stage as a using bodybuilder, I can't just take a simple cycle or two. Lots of people here are top end national or higher lifters or bodybuilders. To be a top end national juicer you gotta take a lot of juice, costing a lot of money and risking a lot of health.

And without all that juice, we'd all be just another using BB in a gym full of hundreds of them. 'I used to be good as a natty first!' 'Yeah right.'

That's why I stay natural. I've earned it. I don't want it taken away by becoming a novice in the next game.

Like being an RSM with 22 years active service I guess, then becoming a Lieutenant with all the new officer recruits.


What gets me the most about juicers is when they juice if they don't know what they are doing, not only do they loose the gains from the juice, but also, the gains BEFORE juicing....If u are gonna juice, be prepared to fight like a mother to keep those juiced gains, cause the way u got them are not going to be present when off...U automatically loose that 50% increase in protein synthesis...THink about it...HOw can u maintain those gains without the extra increase in protein sysnthesis?It's not gonna happen, unless u can somehow mimic via  pct the 50% increase of protein synthisis...

I haven't even mentioned the other mechanisms juice utilizes which u don't get either when off...go figure...

If u can build a base without first, then if u want to juice u will have a better chance at keeping the gains...


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Tez on June 15, 2016, 08:01:35 PM
Some top answers. I'd say my two penneth on top is that I sometimes see the assisted shows as 'who took illegal drugs best' rather than the natty athletes whereby it's about the level playing field, clarity and integrity


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Damon Eaton on June 16, 2016, 10:22:06 AM
Because Im an average natty, so if I become a sted head I will just be an average sted head only I will die sooner and have a smaller bank balance.  ;D


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Glen Danbury on June 16, 2016, 11:32:08 AM
I've often pondered this. a lot of the reasons mentioned already count in my kind but what stops me is the uncertainty issue.

how many of us question our training, our dietary choices etc etc. if you use PEDs you take a risk and as such I would want to maximise my results. The uncertainty of all the basic variables would prevent me from taking that next step.

I constantly feel that by improving my training and  diet I could be better - maybe not PEDs better but better and if that's the case will I get all the benefits considering the inherent risks?


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Toby on June 16, 2016, 04:50:43 PM
Because Im an average natty, so if I become a sted head I will just be an average sted head only I will die sooner and have a smaller bank balance.  ;D

Forum Post of the Year right there


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Damon Eaton on June 16, 2016, 06:27:45 PM
Because Im an average natty, so if I become a sted head I will just be an average sted head only I will die sooner and have a smaller bank balance.  ;D

Forum Post of the Year right there

Why thank you kind sir.

Hopefully the awards will go ahead this year without me causing them to be deleted 😑


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Badger on June 17, 2016, 09:55:47 AM
When it comes down to it the big question is what is the big picture?

For me I like to be successful at what I do and for me success is being happy, healthy, proud of what you are doing and being responsible for whatever life choices you make. The implications of using are to me;

1. Actually damaging/compromising my health for what? a trophy? a weight? I can win a trophy and lift a weight without compromising my health so there is no logical reason in my mind to take anything. All taking gear does is raise the weight you can lift or the look you can present, but that is then solely down to PED's. As someone who is competitive as well I know for a fact that no matter how far I would go there is someone in the drugged world who will happily risk sacrificing everything to win.

2. In my work, to be very honest, nobody is going to want to do business with someone they perceive to be taking drugs. Right or wrong it is simply a fact in my situation. Also as at times it can be a very intense environment I honestly believe the changes that having excess hormone swimming in my system would have on my temperament would be negative.

3. In my home life I simply would not be comfortable sitting with my wife knowing that she would have to jab me in the arse with some dodgy horse drugs that a mate brought of a Polish fella at the local gym who also sells Coke etc. She would see me as a drug user, I would see myself as a drug user and it would be something I would have to carry.

4. At the end of the day nobody makes a bean out of bodybuilding/powerlifting, both are great sports but really at the end of the day both exist for my own accomplishment. what bob smith thought of a weight I lifted in 2010 is pretty much meaningless to me. 

5. I have been in an intensive care ward and for me it would be most ridiculous thing imaginable to end up there again with liver/kidney failure through my own choices. Life is far too precious.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Nic on June 17, 2016, 10:09:24 AM
All the replies here are great but this ^^^ says it all.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: SuperSi on June 17, 2016, 10:55:23 AM
Trying to look at it from both perspectives:

Pros
Bigger
Stronger
Potentially more marketable

Cons
Obvious potential health implications - some negatives are likely exaggerated. However, it's a bit Russian roulette. You don't know if you'll be just fine or if you'll be someone that has serious heart/renal/fertility issues.
While you may be more marketable, the general public are becoming more switched on to PEDS. They're in the news a lot more than the 80s/90s. It could potentially make you less marketable.
If you want to bodybuild/powerlift, you'd need to make a decision: happy with just turning up or 'up the dose.' That's one thing that really put me off in my early 20s - I trained in a primarily UKBFF gym and guys always commented that they had to increase their cycle to be competitive.
If you want to do any work within sport, in most instances, any association with  PEDS will be a no-go. There's even something in the WADA code about it now. 

Ultimately, the only definite pros are bigger and stronger. Only you can decide if you feel that being bigger/stronger is worth all of the cons.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: SCOTTGALTON on June 17, 2016, 01:30:43 PM
 For me I like to train, I like to eat well, I like to be healthy. Bodybuilding for me is a by product of this rather than the reason that I do what I do. Getting on stage at some point probably keeps me training a bit harder and probably eating a bit better than I would but all in all I live the lifestyle and enjoy it. So drugs have never really come on my radar, I don't smoke or drink and have need taken anything else so why would I take steroids?



Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Maveric Matt on June 20, 2016, 12:39:42 PM
TBH I get why people want to use PED's, from what I've seen and heard, the results are pretty much instant, and of coarse the ceiling height is greatly altered from what can be achieved.  So I guess these are the Pro's.

The Con's would be for me the fact that I have achieved some decent results naturally, so if I was to use now it would put all those years behind me in the shade.  I know you have already accomplished quite a bit naturally.
As for your work, it's a double edged sword really.  You may look bigger / be stronger but each client will have their own opinion on PED's and that would skew their attitude to you.
Cost is a factor, as is health - although as Si mentioned, this is possibly a bit out of date and dependant on the individual and the PED's in question.
I think possibly the biggest con from the people I know is the fluctuating size and strength issues with being 'on and 'off' play serious mental games and that's something I wouldn't want! 
At least I know what I've built will stay longer and more consistently. 


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Damon Eaton on June 20, 2016, 06:07:17 PM
Matt raises a good point there.

When I lose a tiny bit of strength in a diet I feel like smashing my head off the wall.

Dread to think how I'd feel if I lost loads of size and strength due to cycling on and off.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Monbeef on June 21, 2016, 06:33:24 AM
Totally. And once I saw a post from someone on muscletalk saying that and he said, "Don't you just hate life when you're off?"

What kind of way of life is that?!?! Only happy when you are an enhanced version of yourself. How will you ever be happy as yourself?


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Jon on June 21, 2016, 02:04:08 PM
Interesting perspective about coming off the drugs by 6 x Mr Olympia Dorian Yates...

https://youtu.be/Hrh2HW7NQ9U


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: LiftHard on June 21, 2016, 08:05:46 PM
For me I like to train, I like to eat well, I like to be healthy. Bodybuilding for me is a by product of this rather than the reason that I do what I do. Getting on stage at some point probably keeps me training a bit harder and probably eating a bit better than I would but all in all I live the lifestyle and enjoy it. So drugs have never really come on my radar, I don't smoke or drink and have need taken anything else so why would I take steroids?




Would you consider trt?


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Dan94 on June 25, 2016, 03:20:48 PM
Interesting perspective about coming off the drugs by 6 x Mr Olympia Dorian Yates...

https://youtu.be/Hrh2HW7NQ9U


Interesting interview. Thanks Jon.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: LiftHard on June 26, 2016, 12:13:35 AM
You're right to give it a lot of thought, it's a really big decision.

Lots of good points already raised yourself and by Dan. Obviously I'm going to recommend staying natural, my mother used to say 'if in doubt... dont', and it's not bad advice.

Think of the end game. If you start on drugs then some day you will have to get off them again and lose the gains. That could be a short period of time or a long one. What do you want to achieve, and what could you realistically achieve by going on them? Think about the time when you come off and look back. I would say it is unlikely that using would increase financial security in the longer term. The cost of sustaining that lifestyle could make you worse off. A very, very small percentage of bodybuilders really benefit (in terms of furthering their career) from taking drugs. Perhaps less than the top 1% genetically gifted.

Ultimately for me, the ethical issues and my longer term health kept me natural. It's a decision you need to make for yourself, but a lot can be achieved naturally with hard work over time.


Yep, good post! Jon how do u think the current pros will look when their career is over? Also, what about the retired pro's, how do they look today? What is their health like, etc....



Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: DghSpanishWelsh on May 02, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
Interesting perspective about coming off the drugs by 6 x Mr Olympia Dorian Yates...

https://youtu.be/Hrh2HW7NQ9U


Very.

For Yates, the gamble was worth it. But let's be honest, how many people are gonna succeed like Yates.

One of the things I admire about Dorian is that he manages to speak honestly yet responsibly about gear.



Title: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Smithey on May 07, 2018, 04:17:31 PM
I'd always  be wondering  how good I wudda bin if I  hadn't took em. When I was a youth, we used to hear of horror stories about steroid users. The older you get, more things go wrong with the human body anyway so it's too risky adding to possibilities of an early death or poor health.
Sometimes I think that a lot of the young guys in the gym haven't got the patience to build big muscles so steroids are the short cut. Another symptom of our "now" generation.


Title: Re: Why do you stay natural?
Post by: Monbeef on September 07, 2018, 10:09:10 PM
The fact that I've become a heavyweight sized bodybuilder and a not bad powerlifter in the natural realm. To be the standard I am now in the juiced realm would take years, health risks and lots of money. One cycle or two would put me in a pretty average box as an assisted competitor. I'd have get up to moderate to decent amateur level heavyweight competition in the UKBFF or PCA and that's not just a little bit of extra size.