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Author Topic: banned substances  (Read 15687 times)
Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2013, 10:57:28 AM »


What if something takes on banned status soon? In-comp bans would need some thought, but if for some reason WADA banned a product out-of-comp that people had used, the NPA lifetime rules would then render the ineligible to compete. Something like DAA or other test booster or hormone effecting supplement.



Thats an interesting point, surely people have taken DMAA before in products like Jack3d, would they fail a poly?
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Jon Bibb
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2013, 06:47:48 PM »


What if something takes on banned status soon? In-comp bans would need some thought, but if for some reason WADA banned a product out-of-comp that people had used, the NPA lifetime rules would then render the ineligible to compete. Something like DAA or other test booster or hormone effecting supplement.



Thats an interesting point, surely people have taken DMAA before in products like Jack3d, would they fail a poly?
Only if they lied about the usage. Always admit to previous use of currently banned substances or you will fail the poly .
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Monbeef
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2013, 02:22:44 PM »

Wasn't there someone before my time (Chris Jones or someone?) who had taken prohormones when they were allowed but never once they were banned and was then banned himself after competing?

If he lied then fine, his fault. But the fact remained that he wasn't eligible to compete with the NPA because he used prohormones when they were allowed. What if that happened now with DAA etc? (Not DMAA which is only banned in comp).

If I'm wrong about Chris Jones, sorry I don't know the story or the name! But the point is still relevant.
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fhwill
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 04:42:40 PM »

I know that with BNBF Poly's the polygrapher will tell you if he's concerned i.e. a reading isn't quite right; and will give you the chance to air anything you've got on your mind.

I.E. If I used a product with Bitter Orange peel, and I was unsure going into the Poly; and I got to the end and he was umming and ahhing and suspected something; I could then tell him my concern over what I'd taken and re-do the test accordingly, and then pass. If he was concerned, I denied any concerns/knowledge and he continued with the Poly and was still not happy; I'd fail.

I know that from the experience of a past competitor who told me.

Moral of the tale, if you're not sure -ask before you go into the Polygraph!  Grin
Or, don't take anything you're remotely unsure of (I do this one).
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SteHowie
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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 07:59:04 AM »

Thats interesting.  My take is if a reading isn't quite right - you fail!

Before the poly - you are given the chance to come clean on anything untoward - if you don't then you have lied.

Or is a poly not black and white?

also they use double blind questions

Give me a positive - is your name Fred

Give me a negative is your name Fred - as truth and untruth come from different parrts of the brain, so have a differnt chemcial and electircal response - so clearly marking down which answer is which.
Mind you when you are trying to work out what is negative and positive in a carb depleted state - you could be saying anything!!
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Toby
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« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2013, 08:09:27 AM »

Thats interesting.  My take is if a reading isn't quite right - you fail!

Before the poly - you are given the chance to come clean on anything untoward - if you don't then you have lied.


I thought it was simply a case of determining if you have used something you shouldn't, not whether you lied. I may think creatine is banned for example, lie in the test, they see the lie and rather than failing they try to ascertain what I took and more questions reveal it was not a banned substance. Surely you cannot be banned for lying itself but only if the lie is to cover up an actual banned substance
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Jon Bibb
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2013, 11:47:07 AM »

The testers will fully explain what to do during the test before it begins.It will not necessarily determine the exact substance used but if you lie on a question such as 'have you ever used anabolic steroids' or 'have you used a banned substance since joining the NPA' then you will fail . It's fairly straightforward really.
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Toby
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2013, 12:09:55 PM »

Luckily I do not have to worry about such things then  Grin
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SteHowie
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2013, 02:39:57 PM »

Good job they don't ask you about the women in your life Toby!!!!!  BEEEP BEEP - WHIRRRRRR BOOM!!!!
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Nic
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2013, 03:09:23 PM »

He wouldn't exactly be lying, he just wouldn't be able to remember!
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Toby
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« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2013, 03:55:27 PM »

If they ask about that stuff Steve, I may be in there some time!
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SuperSi
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« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2013, 05:04:01 PM »

Damn, some of y'all make this sound so complicated.

I've never come across any other sports that are the same. I guess it's due to the polygraph alongside concern over losing 'natural status.'
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Monbeef
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« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2013, 07:01:09 PM »

Are other countries' feds as strict as UK feds?
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SuperSi
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« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2013, 05:25:06 PM »

Are other countries' feds as strict as UK feds?

Do you mean bodybuilding feds or sport in general, mate?

If you mean sport in general, from my experience, UK Sport is one of the strictest (if not the strictest) for drug testing. Athletes I've work with have been drug tested a lot, any time between 06:00 and 23:00 (generally the early one!). This doesn't happen in all countries - far from it.
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Monbeef
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« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2013, 08:45:53 PM »

I meant in both really. I like that UK Sport is strict as I agree with the way they test and what they test for. But are other BB feds as strict? As in polys and lifetime natural etc?
I do agree with polys. Whether they are accurate I don't know, but if you're clean you'll be confident and pass so there's no prob. I just cannot agree with lifetime natural. Maybe lifetime not-drug-abuser, but lifetime with no banned products before some people even know about the tiny world of natural BB isn't right IMO. Bearing in mind so many products are mainstream, not steroids, not illegal, so fine to anyone outside of tested sport. But those products rarely make a difference. Which leaves natural BBers branded as juicers for nothing.

On the other hand I understand its hard to differentiate and test any other way.
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