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Author Topic: banned substances  (Read 17119 times)
Toby
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« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2013, 09:23:27 AM »

I agree with that quite a lot Colin and one should not be penalised for indiscretions of the past for the rest of their life, not in the context of our sport anyway. I do not know the science of whether heavy gear usage would still give someone an advantage 7 years later so cannot argue that the lifetime natural status is needed from that standpoint.

If Heath never touched another banned substance but continued to follow a solid nutritional and training plan, what could / would he look like in 7 years? I would be fascinated to see that plus in an alternative universe see what he would look like compared to himself had he never used in his whole life. It is not just about how they look compared to others but how they have enhanced their own natural potential.

One point I think is worth raising is about choice. Some people, for whatever reason, want to compete against true lifetime naturals as that is what they are. Right or wrong, flawed arguments or not, they retain the right to feel that way and so there is an opportunity to go that route just as there is the option to go the seven year clean route if that is what you believe in.
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Monbeef
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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2013, 10:19:49 AM »

It's been done, Toby, as I mentioned before - Kevin Levrone. Olympia front runner. Notorious for dangerously high dose pre Olympia anabolic cycles. Some of the biggest arms and delts of all time.
And now after years clean but still training he looks the same as a big natural. Maybe smaller than Gozdecki or St.Lewis. Is that a result of gear use that he's a BIG natural? I doubt it. He was a BIG user. You don't become a world leading champ based on drugs alone. He is naturally gifted, juice or not.

I'm guessing he looks pretty much now like he would if he were always natural. The best to see would be Kai Greene. He was a top international drug tested bodybuilder, then got on it and is now a top assisted bodybuilder. If he stopped we could see if he returned to what he was.


Re the other points, my worry isn't those who used steroids and got big. They have the BNBF and UKDFBA and that's great.
It's people who knew not of natural bodybuilding, and used any of the random, mainstream advertised banned products that do not give them gains but do label them an unnatural bodybuilder. Their gains are their own. Yet, they arent eligible.
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Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2013, 12:18:42 PM »

One point I think is worth raising is about choice. Some people, for whatever reason, want to compete against true lifetime naturals as that is what they are. Right or wrong, flawed arguments or not, they retain the right to feel that way and so there is an opportunity to go that route just as there is the option to go the seven year clean route if that is what you believe in.

This.

If you lose to someone who is 7 years clean and you are a true natural, the question will always be there, would they still have beat you if they were a true natural. I for one would only ever want to compete against lifetime naturals.

Question.

Cannabis.........what are the rules regarding this, is there a minimum period pre competition that you have to be clean, would you fail the poly if you admitted that you had used it as a rec drug?
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Toby
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« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2013, 12:40:28 PM »

Question.

Cannabis.........what are the rules regarding this, is there a minimum period pre competition that you have to be clean, would you fail the poly if you admitted that you had used it as a rec drug?

You cannot use recreational drugs as a member of the NPA. Previous use is fine but not if it has happened within a year of joining the NPA I believe it is. Caught with recreational gets a warning or two year ban I believe depending on what it is. Class A is the two year ban and the cannabis is the warning.

I have used recreational in my misspent earlier days, before even training, lifting or even thinking about bodybuilding, literally years and years and years ago and have cleared it and had the matter discussed with the relevant people.

If you have anything in the past that concerns you I would say the simple solution is to just be honest and say what it is, I have and there is no issue with it but had there been I could have gone with alternatives eg the BNBF and seven year rule. Be honest as it will always come out anyway with a poly.
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Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2013, 12:58:47 PM »

I have a friend who is planning to compete in the bnbf, its his first show and I saw him smoking last night, its not a regular occurrence, but wondered what risk he is running. I spoke to him about it so he wont be touching anything from now on.
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Toby
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« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2013, 01:41:46 PM »

I would check with them upfront but I think he may not be able to compete this year.
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Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2013, 02:10:42 PM »

I think I will forget I ever asked the question, it wont show in a urine test so it would only be an issue if he did a poly, in which case h will just have to be honest and see what happens.
Would be a shame, a silly mistake.
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Toby
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« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2013, 02:14:53 PM »

I am not sure I am right to be honest hence I say he should ask and find out. But the issue is that to conceal it is deceit and the level of infraction should not matter as the line is clear and been set.

I could be talking out of my arse but don't recreational act as an appetite suppressor so it would have an effect.
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Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2013, 02:23:26 PM »

I could be talking out of my arse but don't recreational act as an appetite suppressor so it would have an effect.

Cannabis, no, hence the munchies!

Read something saying for bnbf it is ok as long as its out your system on the day you are tested.
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Toby
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« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2013, 02:30:53 PM »


Cannabis, no, hence the munchies!


Oh yeah! The total opposite then!
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Crimble
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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2013, 04:48:13 PM »


What are people's takes on DMAA products?

Does anyone know if people would get banned for using them previously "out of competition"?

I know they have been banned in the supplement industry within the last year or so. But before that I believe a hell of a load of people would have been using things like jack3d, 1MR, Hemo Rage etc without ever being aware of using a "banned substance".

A guy I train with who was considering competing in the Autumn time asked me if he would be eligable. I responded to him that I wasnt sure as I believe you have to have not used anything like that for at least a year before competition. His response was something like "I thought you could use things like that "out of competition" i.e before your prep, or around 3 months before doing a show".

We were left at a bit of a stalemate after that. Any input?

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Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2013, 05:02:46 PM »

Dont quote me here, but I think DMAA is OK outside of competition, basically you are ok as long as it isn't in your system on the day you are tested.

DMAA was always too good to be true.
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Jon Bibb
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« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2013, 05:23:39 PM »

DMAA should not be used within 1 year of competition or after joining the NPA.Previous use does not effect your natural status.One person tested positive for this last year and received a one year ban.
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Mr Hypertrophy
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« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2013, 10:32:44 PM »

DMAA should not be used within 1 year of competition or after joining the NPA.Previous use does not effect your natural status.One person tested positive for this last year and received a one year ban.


So if someone has used within the last year they are ineligible to compete at NPA?

Is the same the case for BNBF?

Not sure when my friend stopped taking this, I think by the time the comp rolls around it probably will be a year.
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Monbeef
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« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2013, 05:40:05 AM »

I believe with the BNBF it is on a test on the day basis like all other sports.
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