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Author Topic: The pursuit of sustainable health and happiness  (Read 535481 times)
Turpin
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 10:04:00 PM »

It seem BB'ers fed up with dieting and needing something to train for, a goal, turn to PL! Lets have fun with this guys.


   Ive said it before ( and I`ll say it again ) Toby , powerlifting ( THE `BIG 3 ) and all that it entails is not a means to an end when seeking hypertrophy.
   Training ( powerlifting wise ) for a bigger squat , bench and deadlift will not benefit most bodybuilders who are seeking an aesthetic / muscular physique.

  T. 
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Monbeef
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 10:10:08 PM »

No but a bigger maximal power output on those exercises will lead to bigger, more effective higher rep lifts in those and other big compound movements in the future that will assist hypertrophy, surely?

Just building a deeper foundation on which to build higher. The same could be said for plyometrics. No mass. But better contractions for bigger muscles down the line.
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Turpin
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 10:18:22 PM »

No but a bigger maximal power output on those exercises will lead to bigger, more effective higher rep lifts in those and other big compound movements in the future that will assist hypertrophy, surely?

Just building a deeper foundation on which to build higher. The same could be said for plyometrics. No mass. But better contractions for bigger muscles down the line.

  Powerlifting training ( much like many `performance` sports training ) is sport specific. YES plyo work and heavy explosive lifting will realise greater neuro / muscular connection , BUT in terms of hypertrophy and moreso aesthetic physique building such training is worthless on its own lest it is combined with exercise ( sets/reps ) aimed at hypertrophy.

    T. 
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Toby
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2013, 10:25:40 PM »

I understand what you are saying T and maybe it is naive of me to think otherwise but I feel my existing lifts would see me home, except the squat which needs work, so I would not need to outright train in a pure PL strength manner for long but could incorporate it into what I do anyway to a degree. I would work in a strength programme to a degree but not strictly and as said, for a short period of time.

Then it would also help increase my strength on the one rep and thus help me on sets by increasing my strength, I should be able to then rep higher. But overall I would not lose anything on the physique and if anything gain as it could help my weak points (lower back and quads) catch up and any lost ground if I did more strength training would soon be recovered when I reverted to bodybuilding training.

Now I am out of prep, my lifts will go back up anyway and are not too bad. Last year I deadlifted 210, squatted 150 and benched 130 but form was slightly off. That was in bodybuilding training and just a slight adjustment and specialist training and the form would be fine and the lifts would increase. I hope!!
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Nagels
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2013, 10:26:29 PM »

Wendlers 5 3 1 Triumvirate might be worth a look if you're looking at heavy lifting Toby. It has some good assistance/hypertrophy options with it.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength
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Toby
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2013, 10:26:46 PM »

Probably naive as I said, but I feel I may be able to swap for a short period to bring the lifts up to the level needed, do a contest, then go back to BB training.
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Toby
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2013, 10:29:05 PM »

Wendlers 5 3 1 Triumvirate might be worth a look if you're looking at heavy lifting Toby. It has some good assistance/hypertrophy options with it.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_build_pure_strength

That is the exact programme I had looked at but was thinking of something shorter term, but if i did it for a prolonged period, that is a good compromise and I know loads who have used it.

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Turpin
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2013, 10:31:52 PM »

I understand what you are saying T and maybe it is naive of me to think otherwise but I feel my existing lifts would see me home, except the squat which needs work, so I would not need to outright train in a pure PL strength manner for long but could incorporate it into what I do anyway to a degree. I would work in a strength programme to a degree but not strictly and as said, for a short period of time.


   That I would agree with Toby , drop your rep range on your 3 lifts ( but increase their volume ... sets ) whilst keeping your bodybuilding / hypertrophy exercise as normal ... higher rep range & targeted muscle training.

   Good luck mate , T.  
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csaunders
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« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2013, 07:38:16 AM »

Try 5x5 training, Toby. I used this for a while and my legs exploded in size/strength. Other lifts increased also, both in size and strength but not commensurate with my squat gains.

I always use a modified version of bill starrs 5x5 intermediate
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Toby
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2013, 08:27:43 AM »


   That I would agree with Toby , drop your rep range on your 3 lifts ( but increase their volume ... sets ) whilst keeping your bodybuilding / hypertrophy exercise as normal ... higher rep range & targeted muscle training.

   Good luck mate , T.  

Thanks mate. I will report back on how I get on  Grin

Try 5x5 training, Toby. I used this for a while and my legs exploded in size/strength. Other lifts increased also, both in size and strength but not commensurate with my squat gains.

I always use a modified version of bill starrs 5x5 intermediate

I had thought about the 5x5 and also the 5 3 1 as I remember a few using it about 18 months ago, Pete B sticks out in my mind but I think  few did it with good results. The 5x5 on squat, dead, bench could be a method but I would also then do my other BB work after.
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Monbeef
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« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2013, 08:54:22 AM »

You really shouldn't! Madcow intermediate 5x5 is awesome, but the volume is high and you shouldn't do extras.

But you shouldn't need to. It involves squats, deads, bench, rows, military presses and pull ups. Fair enough 5 reps may not be hypertrophy perfect for all, but the volume really does make a difference, and it is very high volume. Especially on week 4.

Also, recent studies showed those who only did bench and pulldowns had the same gains all over as those who did bench, pulldowns, curls and tricep extensions. Including no difference in bicep and tricep mass.
Bottom line, despite me knowing I will always do curls and extensions, they may not be needed.

So, the madcow may be a good way for you to go. Super for squats and will give you a different stimulus.

Just make sure you keep your rests shorter than prescribed, and I would do the 5x5, deload, 5x5 rather than 5x5, deload, 3x3.
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Toby
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2013, 09:14:05 AM »

I am reading it now James. The first thought that strikes me is where is my damn bi and tri work and delt work (front, side, rear raises) and I immediately thought I could go with the programme but do Arms on Tuesday and Delts on Thursday but you are thinking there would be no need? Just go with what it has and I should see strength increase? How about physique, will that suffer much/at all?

Heck, a month at this will not cause any issues and would be a nice change I guess, would let me see if I have any PL capabilities inside me
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K_Dogs
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« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2013, 10:55:57 AM »

Hey Tobes,

The advice is coming thick and fast and makes a lot of sense.

Diving straight in and trying to hit PBís in the big lifts is a disaster waiting to happen if your body isnít suitably conditioned. I'm pretty confident that a couple of months without laterals, curls or press-downs isnít going to make a blind bit of difference if youíre hitting the big 4 (Iíll extend it to 4 to include the military press). Choose a program that sees you progress and condition yourself towards the competition. Giving a strength programme pure focus for 2 to 4 months is going to benefit your goal of qualifying far greater than being tied to your BB routine.

You may want to consider The Juggernaut method 2.0 or Wendler 5,3,1, however most of these programs are just spins offs of one another. Also remember that the accessory work is there to enhance your core lifts, not take away from them.
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Monbeef
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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2013, 11:23:17 AM »

Keith is right.

Also, benching at that volume is a lot of decent tricep work. Especially if your hands are as close as they are meant to be.

Pendlay Rows really hit your rear delts and traps as well as your lats.

Pull ups are obvious and should be staple in any bodybuilding routine anyway.

Deadlifts and squats together will hit your quads, hams, glutes and lower back more than enough at that volume.

Military Presses hit your anterior and medial delts more than enough. To be fair, at your current size, these will just thicken you up and you have no need for laterals - though I will always do them as I love the wide pump!

As the program says, do some bis if you want. But tris will get plenty of work.

But I'd do the 9 weeks. 4 volume, 1 deload, 4 more volume. If you want to channel for a comp you can then 3x3 into it but in general the 5x5 will suit your current goals better.

Believe me though, it's hard, it's enough, and it'll hurt!
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Toby
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« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2013, 12:45:41 PM »

I am leaning towards the 5x5 with some added curls, pull ups etc as the programme does say you can include that at the end of one of the days.

I was reading it and thinking about how I can alter the programme when I came to this line - "Substituting Exercises: Don't fuck with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything" which made me laugh, it was reading my mind.

I will work it all out over the next few days and look to start on Monday with this for a nine week blast off and see how it goes and I will stick to it religiously. Need to now read it again and again to make sure I understand what I am doing.

My targets, at this stage, is 5RM - Dead - 180. Squat - 150kg. Bench - 115kg
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