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Author Topic: Show position represents position in country?  (Read 13273 times)
Toby
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« on: October 04, 2016, 04:23:51 PM »

So I have a pet niggle this year and thought it was worth chucking out to see if I am in single boat of one here and maybe get some debate going.

People come out of a finals with a position in that fed, does that then make them that position of ranking in the UK?

Example, a guy comes 5th in his class in the BNBF finals one week and declares himself "The fifth best natural heavyweight bodybuilder in the UK." Surely he is just the 5th best heavyweight in the BNBF and not the UK. Can he beat all of the rival heavies in the NPA finals? And the ones from the UKDFBA? Shame he did not do the finals from the other feds as he would have two British titles in the bag obviously.

In my example, I thought a trophy said: "BNBF British Finals 2016 - Heavyweight 5th" and so there is no wording there at all that says "5th best in the uk". I keep seeing these statuses across Facebook and Twitter and it makes me grimace. Interestingly I have noticed that it is the middle ranking guys who say it and not the top guys. Is it because they are more secure in their position and do not need to exaggerate. For example, I cannot recall any British winners from any feds saying they were the best but rather than they were happy with the title they had won, accurately indicating their status and what had happened.

Maybe I am becoming grouchy, pedantic and maybe even downright argumentative.

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SuperSi
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2016, 04:46:58 PM »

I get where you're coming from - ultimately, I don't really see it as that persons' fault, it just illustrates the dilution of an already niche sport. They're proud of their achievements and perhaps looking for recognition.

Taking a middleweight in the NPA for example, it's a lot catchier than:

"I'm the 4th/5th/6th best in Britain out of men who weigh between 70-78kg, aged over 21 and under 40, of one of the three natural federations, of amateur men who were competing this year and carried on to do the finals."

Although, in answer to your original question, no it doesn't represent position in the country. That's almost impossible to ascertain in a subjective sport where not everyone steps on the same stage at the same time. Being brutality honest, we don't even know who the best is.
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fhwill
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2016, 04:48:34 PM »



Maybe I am becoming grouchy, pedantic and maybe even downright argumentative.



Yes, yes you are  Grin

One day Toby, you'll be 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the UK and see if you don't shout it from the rooftops!  Wink  Cool
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Toby
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2016, 04:49:44 PM »



Maybe I am becoming grouchy, pedantic and maybe even downright argumentative.



Yes, yes you are  Grin

One day Toby, you'll be 1st, 2nd or 3rd in the UK and see if you don't shout it from the rooftops!  Wink  Cool

lol well it will be different when / if I do it myself, obvs lol!  Cool
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Toby
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2016, 04:51:26 PM »

I get where you're coming from - ultimately, I don't really see it as that persons' fault, it just illustrates the dilution of an already niche sport. They're proud of their achievements and perhaps looking for recognition.

Taking a middleweight in the NPA for example, it's a lot catchier than:

"I'm the 4th/5th/6th best in Britain out of men who weigh between 70-78kg, aged over 21 and under 40, of one of the three natural federations, of amateur men who were competing this year and carried on to do the finals."

Although, in answer to your original question, no it doesn't represent position in the country. That's almost impossible to ascertain in a subjective sport where not everyone steps on the same stage at the same time. Being brutality honest, we don't even know who the best is.

Wouldn't "Came fourth in a (the) British Finals" suffice? More honest than a statement that has no truth attached to it and is overinflating self worth.  Sad
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SuperSi
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2016, 04:56:26 PM »

Yeah, it would to be fair.

It doesn't massively bother me though, as those don't follow natural bodybuilding would see '4th in the British Finals' and '4th best in Britain' as the same thing. They've no idea about proliferation of competitors and the like.


Those that follow it, know that the bit I put in italics above is the reality (plus I forgot - that isn't a novice).
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DDG
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2016, 05:08:23 PM »

I get where you're coming from - ultimately, I don't really see it as that persons' fault, it just illustrates the dilution of an already niche sport. They're proud of their achievements and perhaps looking for recognition.

Taking a middleweight in the NPA for example, it's a lot catchier than:

"I'm the 4th/5th/6th best in Britain out of men who weigh between 70-78kg, aged over 21 and under 40, of one of the three natural federations, of amateur men who were competing this year and carried on to do the finals."

Although, in answer to your original question, no it doesn't represent position in the country. That's almost impossible to ascertain in a subjective sport where not everyone steps on the same stage at the same time. Being brutality honest, we don't even know who the best is.

I'm with this .. but when I finish first I am the best! LOL Grin Grin
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Damo NY
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2016, 05:26:21 PM »

So I have a pet niggle this year and thought it was worth chucking out to see if I am in single boat of one here and maybe get some debate going.

People come out of a finals with a position in that fed, does that then make them that position of ranking in the UK?

Example, a guy comes 5th in his class in the BNBF finals one week and declares himself "The fifth best natural heavyweight bodybuilder in the UK." Surely he is just the 5th best heavyweight in the BNBF and not the UK. Can he beat all of the rival heavies in the NPA finals? And the ones from the UKDFBA? Shame he did not do the finals from the other feds as he would have two British titles in the bag obviously.



In my example, I thought a trophy said: "BNBF British Finals 2016 - Heavyweight 5th" and so there is no wording there at all that says "5th best in the uk". I keep seeing these statuses across Facebook and Twitter and it makes me grimace. Interestingly I have noticed that it is the middle ranking guys who say it and not the top guys. Is it because they are more secure in their position and do not need to exaggerate. For example, I cannot recall any British winners from any feds saying they were the best but rather than they were happy with the title they had won, accurately indicating their status and what had happened.

Maybe I am becoming grouchy, pedantic and maybe even downright argumentative.

Agree with you there Toby and see it a lot on social media. In my opinion it's quite a bold statement to make, but each to their own I guess.





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Toby
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2016, 06:11:21 PM »

It feels like.. a league 1 team getting to the semis of the fa cup and claiming they are the 4th best team in the UK
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SuperplexSteve
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2016, 07:49:25 PM »

Going off on a bit of a tangent here - I have thought hypothetically how a ranking system would work.  It would be difficult.  Obviously, placings would merit recognition but there should also be weighting based on strength of competition, which is subjective.  Competitors would perhaps accrue points simply for being active.  Someone should build a database!

Back to the original topic, I don't think you're being grouchy Toby.  It's an observation worth commenting on.  People are free to be proud of their achievements and claim whatever they want, as long as it's not harming anyone.  Those already around natural bodybuilding and who do their own research will understand the reality.

If however, someone is making a misleading claim and trying to gain commercially from it, then I could understand perceiving that as not being the right thing to do - i.e. are PTs all expected to act ethically?  
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Jester
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2016, 09:15:24 PM »


If however, someone is making a misleading claim and trying to gain commercially from it, then I could understand perceiving that as not being the right thing to do


Don't get me started.......
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SCOTTGALTON
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« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2016, 08:49:20 AM »

I think that saying your 4th best in the Uk is a little bit misleading but for the general public it kind of puts your achievements in context.

The trouble we will always have in bodybuilding is that we have many natural federations, many Uk or British champions and even many world champions. A lot of these people will never compete against each other so we we never actually know who's the best.

So if someone asked how I did last year I could say I placed 4th in the bantam weight class in the UKDFBA finals and I'm really happy with my year. Most people have no idea what that means outside of our sport so i just say I placed 4th at the Uk finals. If you even try to start explaining the details people checkout of the conversation pretty quick.

In essence your niggle will always exist and will never go away, so cheer up your grumpy old bugger  Grin
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Dawn
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2016, 09:07:51 AM »

My husband is the undefeated Masters World Champion  Cool Grin Wink Tongue
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Glen Danbury
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2016, 09:25:44 AM »

Is this not modern life though? Social media spouting more than what you are?

Having looked on many bodybuilding/powerlifting show adverts each claims to be the biggest show of the year etc etc
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Maveric Matt
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2016, 09:55:35 AM »

That statement is misleading for sure, but a lot depends on how a person says it (if written on social media then it's even tougher to define).  Like Si's example, if you were to explain the proliferation etc. etc. it would be a very long statement.  It's really down to the individuals choice of wording.  Someone over inflated will always try to make it as bold as possible.  Some 'world' titles can be easier to obtain than a tough UK domestic, and that comes across even worse!

It's the same in powerlifting - I've seen some masters lifters breaking records purely as no-one else is there.
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