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Author Topic: Full body sessions vs Splits?  (Read 15616 times)
Monbeef
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2016, 02:56:24 PM »

Enjoyment leads to consistency which leads as close to optimal as can be in my opinion, mate, so I agree.

I was the same for years and loved the freestyle kill it and love it approach. It was only at one point when Glen made me realise I'd never really reach my potential in strength without appropriate structure that I then took that element seriously. The result was strength, which then carried over to my bodybuilding work, and resulted in more size all over. So I've gone back and forth in phases always hitting preplanned strength lifts first before then freestyling and finishing the bodypart off with fun stuff at the end.

When I don't I miss the pump and when I only freestyle I lose strength and that pop-like edge in size and thickness. 
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2016, 04:37:02 PM »

Enjoyment leads to consistency which leads as close to optimal as can be in my opinion, mate, so I agree.

I was the same for years and loved the freestyle kill it and love it approach. It was only at one point when Glen made me realise I'd never really reach my potential in strength without appropriate structure that I then took that element seriously. The result was strength, which then carried over to my bodybuilding work, and resulted in more size all over. So I've gone back and forth in phases always hitting preplanned strength lifts first before then freestyling and finishing the bodypart off with fun stuff at the end.

When I don't I miss the pump and when I only freestyle I lose strength and that pop-like edge in size and thickness. 

It might be optimal to cycle between strength and hypertrophy phases for a bodybuilder or it may be optimal to keep the focus on hypertrophy without neglecting strength I'm not really sure certainly preference will be key.

I do similar to you I start off with the compounds and work in the strength rep ranges but once I hit one solid set I start dropping weight and increasing volume I'm not into the long rest periods so whilst strength isn't neglect its not a focus there for my true strength potential may never be recognised but I'm okay with that as I'm not going to compete in a strength contest.

For me I think it will always be bodypart splits with a bit of strength work at the start whilst strong then low rest and just smash it. Its fun and if I feel like chopping or changing an exercises I just do it if I feel like doing more sets I will. I love this way and I think I will be sticking to it for good.
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Glen Danbury
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 11:51:37 PM »

very scant research on this despite hypothesis of raised protein symthesis gor 72 hours etc.

only one I've seen is this one https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Brad_Schoenfeld/publication/275663348_Influence_of_Resistance_Training_Frequency_on_Muscular_Adaptations_in_Well-Trained_Men/links/554608430cf234bdb21d88f1.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjtlJjyqoHRAhXNNFAKHd7qBwsQFgg2MAI&usg=AFQjCNEHOTb4tPUip2_D35h4qvW1sfXysw&sig2=0pOikks01grQJ64yZI8mXQ that was any good - some issues to take this as definitive proofbut still interesting
 
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fhwill
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2016, 10:37:37 AM »

My "coach" has given me full body in the past -he swears by it, although I don't actually know why?  Huh
It's not my cup of tea personally, as I hate training the same bodypart if it's DOMS-ridden...  Undecided
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Maveric Matt
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2016, 01:33:33 PM »

I feel like I'd never fit in enough of the things / movements I want to do doing full body, so feel splits can 'cover more bases' in terms of muscle angles.
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fstsven
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2016, 01:58:01 PM »

^^

Same here, I have tried it for a year, and it worked (progress didn't seem any better or worse), but I switched back to a split because I felt I couldn't really exhaust every muscle and I like that feeling when you've given a certain muscle absolute hell  Grin
So I think both approaches work and it's a matter of personal preference.
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Glen Danbury
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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2016, 03:50:21 PM »

I feel like I'd never fit in enough of the things / movements I want to do doing full body, so feel splits can 'cover more bases' in terms of muscle angles.

think ultimately this is the quandry we all face, that uncertainty of whats enough.

whilst the quote of 80%of our results comes from 20% of our efforts probably isn't fully true in hypertrophy, the issue of how much is needed to get that final 20% does hold true - more often than not it's a lot less than 80% of our efforts. at least for the beginnet to intermediate lifter. its probably only the advanced who need more than one or two movements with progressive overload
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Monbeef
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2016, 09:04:45 PM »

You can rotate 3 different full body workouts though, Matt?
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DDG
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 09:52:14 PM »

Lots of ways to do this.

The thing is, if you train virtually every day then you can still employ splits and train each body part twice a week. The issue here is recovery and sound, consistent nutrition. This is where a lot of people struggle, I feel, since their commitment to a balanced, wholesome diet is often patchy. However, if all this is in place then you can pretty much train as often as you like AND recover adequately. Training wise the crucial point is to avoid annihilating a muscle group so that you're left sore for days on end. Soreness is at best only a crude measure of the appropriate stimulation required for optimum hypertrophy. Enabling your body to recover is key to enhancing volume and frequency. These, in my view, can be as effective a means of overload as intensity (load) itself.

Just my view ...

 
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Humble Progress
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« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2016, 09:57:16 AM »

I think like most on this board I have tried every variation of split at one time or another.

For me, time is a key component.....When I have been in periods of my life where training was only possible 2-3 times a week then full body sessions was must. I tended to stick to the big movements and I would say overall I benefited in terms of strength more than creating a muscular development.

I have, probably for the first time in 10 years found myself recently in a position where I can train every day, and have been hitting the gym 6-7 days a week. Interestingly almost the opposite is true, my strength is pretty stagnant, but physique wise I feel like I have put on ore muscle than I have ever done before.

My current split is
Session 1
Calves
Hams
Chest

Session 2
Calves
Quads
Back

Session 3
Shoulders
Biceps
Triceps

As I'm hitting 5-7 sessions a week, I tend to be training each muscle twice a week, with the exception of calves which get trained 4 times a week.

I tend to do 2-3 exercises per muscle group (2 for smaller muscles, 3 for bigger muscles).

The increased frequency of training has allowed me to split me legs into quads and hams days, which has made a tremendous difference.
Equally I split my back sessions, one to focus primarily on rowing movements to build thickness, and one to focus on pull ups/downs/overs etc...to focus on width.

I limit my volume to no more than 60 reps per exercise. I do 20 reps on a light weight (1 set), 20 reps on a moderate weight (2-3 sets), 20 reps on a heavy weight (4-5 sets).
60 reps means I hit the tut required to stimulate hypertrophy, and the variation in weight means cover all muscle fibers.
By limiting the rpes to 60 it also gives me an incentive to make sure every rep counts, perfect form.

My problem is food. As I am never panning on competing I am not strict on my diet at all, I eat a lot of protein but I eat junk...I burn it off, so its not like I am fat, but I always sit around 13-14% body fat, were as to really be able to appreciate the muscle I have built over the years it would be good for me to get to 10-11%.
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6517
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« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2016, 11:06:53 PM »

I do push pull quads with push hamstrings with pull train eod
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K_Dogs
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2016, 05:33:52 PM »

When I first read “Full body” I thought that I had to hit every muscle group directly. This didn’t do me any favours and I quickly became bored.

I now have a different take, I see a full body as simply hitting the upper and lower body in same session. With this method you have flexibility to chop and change days and even train twice in a row if required.

Here’s an example

Day1
Squat - Moderate
Bench – Heavy
Chin - Moderate

Day2
Squat – Heavy
Military – Heavy
Dip – Moderate

Day3
Deadlift - Heavy
Row - Moderate
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ben-howard
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2016, 08:49:39 AM »

i had to do the same when hitting full body sessions, had to change the exercises, volume and intensity each workout for the same muscle group - I found I couldn't deadlift more than twice per week, but squatting X3 was fine aslong as they weren't all out sessions


glad its going well for you mate, frequent squatting/deadlifting is a game changer for sure!
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Mr Crabtree
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« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2017, 08:26:06 AM »

I have just started a 12 week cutting phase but when that's finished I will be swapping over to 3 full body workouts.
As above, volume and intensity are important factors that need considering when programming full body workouts.

I intend to run my 3 days as Heavy / Light / Medium.
Exercise selection will also change from session to session.
I'm not fully decided on rep schemes yet but something like -

Heavy 3x4 (flat BB bench)
Light 3x15 (Inc DB bench)
Medium 3x8 (Weighted Dips)

Casey Butt is quite a respected dude and has long advocated HLM style training.
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Glen Danbury
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« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2017, 06:17:02 PM »

I have just started a 12 week cutting phase but when that's finished I will be swapping over to 3 full body workouts.
As above, volume and intensity are important factors that need considering when programming full body workouts.

I intend to run my 3 days as Heavy / Light / Medium.
Exercise selection will also change from session to session.
I'm not fully decided on rep schemes yet but something like -

Heavy 3x4 (flat BB bench)
Light 3x15 (Inc DB bench)
Medium 3x8 (Weighted Dips)

Casey Butt is quite a respected dude and has long advocated HLM style training.

one of my favourite programs (texas method/madcow) runs off H/L/M. it's what got me to 220 x 5 on squats and once body and equipment allows will be going back to it.

in fact might implement same system on cleans once reintroduced in a few months
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