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Author Topic: 2017 UKDFBA Heart Of England Results, Report & Pics  (Read 7914 times)
Jester
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 09:23:38 PM »

1 - That's exactly my point they may not wish or be able to do many qualifiers for whatever reason

2 -  with there not being a UKDFBA qualifier between the BNBF finals and the UKDFBA finals it might create an opportunity for some guys to compete.

3 - Hell if need be it could be invitational only and they still have to pay their membership and entry fee so it can only be a good thing for the UKDFBA.

4 - Especially since we give out few pro cards here in the UK so there is a strong field of amateurs as we prove each year when our feds go abroad. Some who have qualified for Miami might not want to go.

5 - Someone who wins a sword might fancy winning a belt too to make history.

I've edited your post for brevitys sake.

1 - If someone got in touch with me and basically said "I don't really want to do your qualifier but I fancy a crack at the finals", you can imagine my response.  Pretty much the same one they'd get if they contacted Vicky and said the same.

2 - There would have been had the BNBF finals not been moved around March/April time.  

3 - With every one of our qualifiers this year being rammed bar one (which was still pretty busy) I fail to see why you suggest we need more entries.  135 in for the finals so far by the way, including 10 pro men.  If we have many more entries, we'll struggle to cope in fact.  Begging other "feds" members to compete is the last thing on my mind.

4 - I thought "Us lot" gave out about ten?

5 - And they're welcome to try.  Our qualifier dates will be published at the end of the year.  Lots of time to plan.



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Jester
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2017, 10:00:42 PM »

These people would now also be treating the UKDFBA as a bit of a consolation prize when actually it is at least on an equal footing.

They had plenty of opportunities to qualify normally and would have been in shape on a qualifier date as they would have qualified with the BNBF at some similar point in time, so if they did not value it enough to qualify and support the grassroots, for me they should not be allowed into the showcase event

Amen.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 11:14:08 AM »

And he bites  Cheesy

It's ashame Andrew isn't here to bite to Toby's comment then forum could get interesting again.

It's just a suggested you're free to run your fed however you wish.

Makes no odds to me I'm not actively competing this year and I'm not affiliated with any fed which I have proven time and time again when I call out anything I don't agree with from any fed.

In fact fed division fed loyalty and clique fed arse licking is what ruins the sport and will keep it down.
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Toby
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2017, 01:08:50 PM »

Loyalty should be admired firstly.

But as an outsider but unbiased despite being an admitted fan of one fed, I feel that the UKDFBA is more relaxed and understanding that this is a hobby and are supportive and appear to feel that people should be free to compete wherever they like without any negative attitude or comments but there is no doubt that can not be said of the BNBF with dozens of stories of the hierarchy doing all they can to limit their champions competing elsewhere. We all know stories, I can list several but am not stupid enough to commit them to print.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2017, 08:31:20 PM »

I'm not sure of the stories but see that pro's and some amateurs just won't compete in the opposite fed. It's funny because the top guys all seem to admire and respect each other as can be seen with their comments to each other online but they can't compete against each other it's a fear I think of how they will be judged in the other fed and how they will be judged when thet return back to their own. Of course more transparent and fail proof judging like proper score cards being shown and that kind of thing could help eliminate that since there is always so much inconsistency and debate on decisions.

It's very sad pros from both feds are more comfortable competing in none tested feds than other natural feds. Not good for our sport.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 10:18:54 PM »

As for loyalty being admired who exactly are they loyal to and why do they feel the need to be loyal?

They won their pro cards by being the best on the day right they weren't given it so why do they owe their loyalty?

Perhaps they feel loyalty is a must in order to do as wel as possible or fear the consequences of not being loyal. Are they being loyal for their careers or because they feel they owe it?

It's a sport where you compete for your own success why should their be loyalty?

It stops us seeing the true best of the best and it's definitely not a good thing for the sport.
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Toby
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2017, 06:08:10 AM »

As for loyalty being admired who exactly are they loyal to and why do they feel the need to be loyal?

They won their pro cards by being the best on the day right they weren't given it so why do they owe their loyalty?

Perhaps they feel loyalty is a must in order to do as wel as possible or fear the consequences of not being loyal. Are they being loyal for their careers or because they feel they owe it?

It's a sport where you compete for your own success why should their be loyalty?

It stops us seeing the true best of the best and it's definitely not a good thing for the sport.

I meant loyalty on a grander scale rather than that specific mate.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 08:28:52 AM »

Loyalty is a quality to admire unless they are being loyal because they have to be or to further their own success then it's less admirable really as it's not a chice but something they feel they have to do.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2017, 08:47:41 AM »

Nigel and Sam both are stage ready but didn't do the BNBF Pro class. Both would have surely been in contrntion for prize money and would have had the chance to compete against top natural pros but instead both decided to compete for no prize money and against guys on steroids. I don't blame them as such because the cliquey mentality of both feds and questionable decisions you see from both feds it wouldn't be a smart move. Sad though isn't it really?
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fhwill
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2017, 09:56:05 AM »

I don't agree that just because someone did a 'final' somewhere, they should qualify for any final somewhere else; that's really demeaning. Qualification is earned, not given.

And if that was open to UKDFBA and BNBF, why not NPA?

And is it fair that (for arguments sake) you do a qualifier, let's say with BNBF and there are only two people in your class, that you then automatically get a UKDFBA invite?  Huh What if 6 people had turned up instead and you didn't qualify? Hardly seems fair to be given a bye somewhere just because you had no-one else in your class...  Roll Eyes

I was really really tempted by UKDFBA this year I've always wanted to have a crack but due to things happening in my life I wasn't around for the qualifier I wanted to do (the  Southern) and none of the others worked for me. In retrospect I don't regret it, even doing 2 shows I was knackered this year let alone (potentially) 4, if I'd have been fortunate enough to qualify.
If there had been a qualifier a week after the BNBF Finals, I would've been sorely tempted  Grin

You also might want to consider that Sam and Nigel (and Rob W yesterday) did those shows for other reasons, and not because of politics... What if they wanted to see where they hung in terms of untested feds? Or they like the PCA? Or they don't like BNBF judging? -Politics aside, different judges look for different things...
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Toby
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2017, 10:01:56 AM »

And if that was open to UKDFBA and BNBF, why not NPA?


NPWho?!

You also might want to consider that Sam and Nigel (and Rob W yesterday) did those shows for other reasons, and not because of politics... What if they wanted to see where they hung in terms of untested feds? Or they like the PCA? Or they don't like BNBF judging? -Politics aside, different judges look for different things...

I think thats exactly right. Partial stage practise before their pro shows, play with some tweaks, liking the fed and wanting to see how they line up against assisted chaps.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2017, 10:13:35 AM »

They would miss out on Prize money just to see how they stack against roiders?

When there are other shows down the line where they could do that.

Are we going to play ignorant on this really?

Pros don't cross over and it's an issue.

A sport where the best don't go against the best is a dead sport and as a Boxing fan Toby you know this better than anyone.

Different judges look for different things. Thats a big issue its quite easy to look for the things your desired winner has. Way too much room for error there isn't there? Pros know it and they want to keep those judges as sweet as possible so we won't be seeing pros crossing over too often if ever.

Until things change and the feds have to create that change.
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Toby
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« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2017, 10:20:37 AM »

They would miss out on Prize money just to see how they stack against roiders?

When there are other shows down the line where they could do that.

Are we going to play ignorant on this really?

Pros don't cross over and it's an issue.

A sport where the best don't go against the best is a dead sport and as a Boxing fan Toby you know this better than anyone.

Different judges look for different things. Thats a big issue its quite easy to look for the things your desired winner has. Way too much room for error there isn't there? Pros know it and they want to keep those judges as sweet as possible so we won't be seeing pros crossing over too often if ever.

Until things change and the feds have to create that change.

May be wrong, but there was prize money in the PCA, including amateur winners - 2k for pro winner, 450 for amateur winners (May be wrong, just what I heard).

I am with you that pros should face each other and like you it drives me insane and it kills the sport slightly as we have no idea who really is the best. Devalues everyones "world" title as they are not proven as the actual worlds best.

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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2017, 10:26:22 AM »

Exactly it annoys me, I'm not part of any clique or fed (mainly because I say wtf I want) but I like the sport and want to see the top guys against the top guys and it just seems to be getting further and further from happening.

I feel if the judging was more consistent and transparent they wouldn't  care about crossing over as they couldn't get screwed by their own fed on return or the other. That's just one issue the cliquey mentality is another being made to feel like a traitor and so on it's not easy to try and go against the grain.
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Damon Eaton
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« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2017, 10:32:12 AM »

If I'm Nigel I'm thinking if I do the BNBF pro Grand Prix but Sam is loyal in a close call at WNBF pro show they will reward Sam's loyalty.

I'd worry about the same if I was Sam.

If they were to both do it then they will fear they will get screwed against a semi conditioned Gozdecki... oh wait even loyalty can't prevent that 🎣 😂
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